Hey kido, chivalrous notion on your part about attempting to abolish the death penalty. The death penalty is issued by a judge and jury when the subject has been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. To house an inmate on a shelf for one year costs the American Tax pay (your mommy and daddy, and everyone else that works) more money than I get paid a year to defend the rights of this Nation. I myself am all for the Death Penalty. If a human being is capable of doing something that is in essence against all parts of our human nature (and thats to kill a fellow human being) out of anything other than self defense, then that person has obviously created a mindset within himself to where he no longer is capable of following the rules of society. So when that person does commit that crime then there is no chance of rehabilitation, that possibility and capability will always be there. It is like when a dog bites a person. You can try to "rehabilitate" the animal, but that dog will always be a biter. When that dog does it again you must put the dog down for the safety of those around it. You're thinking a dog is a dog and a human is a person. Well I am not an evolutionist, but I have studied human nature to an extent to know that people follow the sames "laws of the jungle" that the animal kingdom follows. People are animals by nature. That is the sad truth of the matter and when you realize this accepting the need of capital punishment will be a lot easier.

That's really really good. I agree. =)

Consider the case of the late Stanley Tookie Williams. He was put on death row for the murders of four people, but within the 20 some odd years that he was in prison, he turned his life around and earned 5 Nobel Peace Prize nominations and 4 Nobel literature nominations for his work as being an anti-gang crusader. That's more than most people can achieve in their entire life time. He was responsible for negotiating the end of gang warfare within many cities. He was executed on December 13th since the governor denied him clemency. Killing him clearly didn't solve anything. It didn't prevent any murders or violence. 150,000 youths have testified to avoiding gang participation as a direct result of him. How many can say the same about capital punishment? Oh, and regarding the notion that capital punishment saves taxpayers money, that's not true. Every major study has shown that the death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment. Why don't we just let murderers sit in jail for the rest of their lives? It's cheaper and their sentences are actually extended. "Elimination of the death penalty would result in a net savings to the state of at least several tens of millions of dollars annually, and a net savings to local governments in the millions to tens of millions of dollars on a statewide basis." -- Joint legislative budget committee of the California legislature. And you may not know this about your own state, but in Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.

You may still be optimistic in your young age, but there is no need for life imprisonment. If they have committed a crime against nature (ie killing another human being) then that person has automatically forfieted their right as a human being and needs to be put to death. This is my opinion, and I would rather pay another dollar at the store knowing that some sick wacko is dead and burried than to know that he could be back out on the streets eventually. The same streets where my children play. You may not realize this yet just cause you're only... what 16-17? But one day after you mature into an adult you will realize that your point of view may be somewhat flawed. Or you may not, you may go throughout the rest of your life assuming that there is an inherent good in all mankind and not realizing the truth that all of man is inherently evil by nature.

I don't think it has anything to do with maturity, and you shouldn't denounce my maturity because of my age. We just happen to believe two different philosophies. You believe that the crimes committed by those on death row are unredeemable, but I still have hope for everyone. We both want justice, but we have different definitions of what that is.

i would have to say that was the worst party i have ever been to in my life.. it sucked!!! but whatever.. so whats up?

I have something to add! hehe Look at it this way--death is an easy way out... I mean if you kill someone what have they learned, they don't even have the time ot repent and reform their life. The only time I would thinkt he death penalty was a good idea is in the case of someone that would be harmful to keep in jail, beacuse of the posibility of them breaking out hurting others etc etc. But other than that I would let them sit in jail and think about what they've done and make them live with the pain and the regret for the rest of their life. If you kill them right away what are they suffering? Just a few thoughts. Thanks for the comment. The braces aren't too terrible--they are simply for looks anyways. ttyl. =)

this is for everyone. tokki killed way more than 4 ppl. they just only no of 4 ppl. i very srongly believe in what henry is saying. that ppl really can change there life around. and become a whole new wonderful person. and on top of that i have seen it happen im my church many of times. but i know henry you dont like relegious confrontation, anyways. tooki might have wrote god books and changed his life. he still has murdered human beings. and he could have never changed that. so i guess when it comes down to it. i agree with henry and bob. so theres my opinion. so peace

heres my 2 cents...; <i><b>Deuteronomy 19:20-21</i></b> {the Bible} ~...<i>never again will such an evil thing be done among you. Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot

but the bible also advocates understanding, redemption, and forgiveness for your sins.

so do you think it is bad for us to go to war in baghdad and stuff. because we have to kill the car bombers and the ppl that attack them. so do you think that all the wars america has gone through. we are bad for killing the opisite opisition?

do you think we have an option?

me and you both kn ow this is just a friendly debate. but what about 9/11 I know it was a long time ago. but after they did that to america. killing inoccent people. you could relate that to tooki. cep he wasnt inoccent. but should we have done nothing. except sit around awaiting another attack? on "our soil"

there is redemtpion and forgiveness for your sins. {God} forgives any one who asks for it. plain and simple. kinda strange some one would do that huh? It is no doubt, but doesnt change that fact the He is a Just and forigiving God...

so basically wat you are sying that a killer gang member that killed ppl should not have died. and iraq should not pay for what the did to america?

iraq is not only killing americans. they are killing each other. such as car bombers. and we are tyring to stop that. do you think that is bad?

we intervented on Hitler when he was killing all of the jews in the halocaust. should we have done anything then?

so your saying that we are interving to much? and if so. what if all the americans just leave iraq like you think they should. and they start attacking the u.s. what shall we do then?

So I have come to the conclusion that we both have our respectable opinions. And I think we should give this a rest. But Henry promise me something don't let this debate we have influence the way we look at each other. and to let us still be friends?

im not saying that they shouldnt pay for there sins cause no doubt they should, but God's Son died just as much as He did for them as He did for me. They are as much of a sinner as i am. yet i asked for God's forgiveness and that He would save me from damnation in a place called Hell. God's Son died because of the sins we commit. But i dont see how the government can let a mass murderer free. where is the justice in that, and he will just continue what he does...

im not saying that they shouldnt pay for there sins cause no doubt they should, but God's Son died just as much as He did for them as He did for me. They are as much of a sinner as i am. yet i asked for God's forgiveness and that He would save me from damnation in a place called Hell. God's Son died because of the sins we commit. But i dont see how the government can let a mass murderer free. where is the justice in that, and he will just continue what he does...

allright sweet

that wouldn't be the case at all. that's what clemency is. clemency does not mean that a murderer will be set free. it's not a pardon. technically, it extends the sentence. clemency is simply mercy over someone's life.

well Henri, as Tanner said, we both have different views on Spiritual as well as 'political' you might say. but hey, everybody cant agree on the same thing and im sure i wont convice you of any other, you you the same to me. But the fine, I wont bother you anymore with my spiritual beliefs. I wish you well, and hope the best for you. If you believe in God and trust in Him, then one day we will meet and look forward to that. But untill then, will see ya Henri... -caleb fransisco

caleb- one thing about your case. . . you quoted deuteronomy, which was part of the old covenant, which was then fulfilled through Jesus' death. you know...no more sacrificing and what not. . .it was all a part of the old covenant.

no. . . just on this post.

Infedel.