I'm all for it, personally. Here is my reasoning: a] It's a woman's choice whether to have a child. b] That does not mean the father has no say. c] If they're not legal and regulated, we return to the age of a rusty coat hanger and possible death. d] At the stage where most abortion happens, the fetus is identical to those of a frog and a horse. e] We owe more allegiance to those who are already alive, rather than those who have not yet developed organs. What are your views? And is that you wearing a cheerleading uniform, lol?

Very well said! And also, I would ask people who might be pro-life to remember that parenting (as I have recently discovered) is a HUGE undertaking. Only those prepared to take it on should carry through with it. That's not to say people should use abortion as birth control, but I don't know that anyone really does that anyway. Also, it is not practical for everyone who has an unwanted pregnancy to put the baby up for adoption. If there were enough homes for the unwanted children, there wouldn't be orphanages today! There's not enough adopting families. And kids that grow up in foster homes and orphanages often times have beahvior, emotional, and other problems because they don't have a stable home environment in which to grow and form an identity. There is a lot that goes into the decision to have a child.

I think very highly of the last two people that responded, but I have to respond with the exact opposite. I understand the reasoning behind it all, and I'm not gonna get into a name calling match or anything of the sort. But I will say that if someone is having sex, protected or otherwise, they are making the decision that they are ready to have a child, whether or not they actually are. People know that protection can fail. I know a few people who have learned it. But I look at the phrase "unwanted children" and I positively want to scream for a couple of reasons. First off, what if every parent decided that they didnt want their child? I'm sure that plenty of adults dont want their older children, preschoolers and the like. Do we legalize killing them as well? They suck up resources, too. Also, who gives a flying piss if the child is unwanted? If the child isn't wanted, keep your pants zipped and your skirt situated. The concept of an unwanted child being a reason for abortion shows exactly how selfish and convenience oriented America is. I know it was convenient for my parents to feed me and provide clothes, a car, and the like for me. Killing me wasnt an option. To answer Kelly point-by-point. A) If she has gotten pregnant, she made the choice already. Rape is a touchy area in this regard, because the woman didnt in fact go in consentually. Why punish the baby (or fetus, future baby, whatever you want to call it) for something that it didnt do? I life, particularly an innocent one, is a beautiful thing. I dont think it should be a womans choice to commit murder any more than it is anyone else's, ESPECIALLY since it is DOUBLE HOMICIDE to kill a pregnant woman. Food for thought. B) This point I really dont have too much issue with, but the fact that a woman could in fact do it on her own, while it makes sense, still leaves it on shaky ground. C) Do intentionally make it easier for criminals to gain access to guns to murder people with? Do police look the other way for a rape? Do we help supply the drug dealers? If we dont help any of them kill, rape, or deal, why should we make it easier to kill a baby? It is illegal and unsafe to walk up and shoot someone, too. Would it be better if we legalized it? D) I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the biology of all of this, but I do know a couple of differences between embryos. 1) Chromosomes and general genetic makeup. 2) The fact that a human embryo becomes a human and not a frog or horse. I dont really understand the validity of this argument. BUT, as with all things, there is another side to it. I do believe that if it is a matter of the mother living or dying, the mother is the obvious choice. If attempting the birth could kill one or both, it isnt worth the risk. But that's just me, I suppose.

Something to think about- If one thinks life is beautiful, think about the kind of life the child will have. The problem lies not with abortion but with the society in which we live. We don't have a good support system for each other because we have individualized the crap out of our nation. We don't have good education and availibility of contraceptives for lower class families where a lot of "unwanted children" come from. The fact is, our society is not family or children friendly. It's about how much they can try to get us to buy while giving us as little help as possible. I wish for tribal days. If we had that type of support system I would not agree with abortion- but then we wouldn't have abortion. There are more things I could go into about sociology and such, but I don't want to rant. I just wanted to add something to think about. No one wants a BABY to be killed. However, it doesn't have a heart beat for a while. I think it would be better to end a "child's" life before it really starts in the world than to force it to grow up unwanted and unloved.

ok that comment amde me mad i am one of thsoe unwanted unloved orphains and let me tell u that yah it is ahrd but i would rather live my life going from house to house and school to school but i would rather live this life than anything else so please shut up about the thier not wanted so we are doing them a favor because you are not and there is no reason that people should not grow up and accept the consiquents for thier actions

ok...well heres my opinion....i dont think its right AT ALL...i agree completely with the guy that wrote "if someone is having sex, protected or otherwise, they are making the decision to have a child, whether or not they actually are" ..half the ppl who are sleeping around and dont want children, think to abortion to "undo" their mistake so when something "goes wrong" they dont think about the innocent child and the choice theyre making ...they just think hmm i can have an abortion and i wont be pregnant any more and life will be easier for me..well i dont think so.... in my belief that makes them a murderer. when they choose abortion...how does that make them any different from just killing someone in the streets? its like "well i dont think this person deserves to live..ill just kill him" thats wrong...the 5th commandment states that "thou shalt not kill" well what do you think youre doing when you make the choice of an abortion?... i feel if they had waited then they wouldnt be in that situation anyway and they wouldnt have anything to worry about, it would teach them responsibility to raise the baby and know how hard it is...and not to make that mistake again...you know how many single women have messed up in life by sleeping around? and regreted it all their lives...alot...and not many men want a woman whos been with another guy and had a baby young in life...they want someone who is responsible and will have a child with them (when theyre both ready)... sometimes they get lucky and find a man who will really love them and their child...but sadly not alot of the times...thats why there are so many single mothers...and for those women who were raped.i understand it wasnt a consentual choice, but how could you live with yourself knowing you killed an innocent baby, that did absolutely nothing to you...why blame it on the baby, and end its life, when the stupid guy that raped you got you pregnant...i dont think its the womens choice to decide to let the baby live or die...and just because theres a chance that the baby will have an "unhappy life" shouldnt turn you towards abortion, theres a even greater chance that that baby will grow up and be happy...it depends on the parent who rases the child..if they learn responsibility and raise the child right and do everything they can for the child there is a great chance the child will grow up perfectly fine...not to sound mean but what makes you think they didnt have abortions in the tribal days? they most likely did...ok i agree with (what the person above said in this) "No one wants to kill the baby" but whether or not its has a heart beat... youre still making the choice to kill it, the baby grows before its heart beats so, its life really starts as soon as it starts to grow inside of you.and to never allow that child inside of you to have a heart beat is murder... being brought up Catholic,i believe killing is a sin.one of the greatest. and no mater how you see it, when you have an abortion, you make the choice to kill your baby. i personally dont believe this is right...its not a choice to have an abortion...and if you decide to have one...then youre choosing to murder you innocent baby...

everyone is writing humongous things so im gonna make it short and simple. i dont think it should be illegal BUT i only think it should be used if the mother's life is in danger. like if she could die from having the child. the end.

I think Graham and Joanne said most everything I would want to, except one thing (unless I missed it... kinda hard to read all of both). If you strip away the religion from it and look at it from a scientific standpoint, a "fetus" has a beating heart by the time a woman discovers she is pregnant. So, wouldn't a being with a beating heart be living? If you have the value that murder is wrong, then that would qualify as murder, thus being wrong. If you don't think murder is wrong, well then I can't really convince you that abortion is wrong either. One last thing, putting religion back into the subject... one should not play God and determine who has the right to live and who doesn't based on the possible quality of life. Besides, I've heard stories of some who trusted God to take care of their baby by not aborting them in situations where they were encouraged to do so, and he worked a miracle and made the baby well. And even when He doesn't, the parents are still very happy and blessed to have a child. But once again, if you don't believe in an all-powerful God, I can't convince you of that one either. Ok... that's all... just saw this as the most remarked and couldn't resist!

I also just noticed someone else mentioned that the "fetus" does not have a heartbeat "for a while". I just found two different websites that said they have one after eighteen days... I've never been pregnant but I'm pretty sure most women don't find out before 18 days, and even if they did, by the time they made the decision to abort it most likely would be after eighteen days... just a little FYI... I also want to add to this point that just because something is not yet living it should not devalue that it soon will be.

I was going to say something about societal issues and the general lack of ethics in not letting the child choose whether or not they wanted a chance, even in bad conditions, but I'd say that Unanimous did I far better job than I could have. Beyond that, I think that the timeframes that Amy brought up are quite worthy of note as well, along with the slight correction that the commandment as correctly translated specifies "though shalt not murder," thought that really has nothing to do with the discussion.

i agree with Amy about the time frames and for Graham...correctly translated? uh im Catholic...that is the correct translation in my bible...(just saying) and it is murder, as is abortion...thats what it has to do with this discussion...

Neh, we're in agreement. I phrased it badly. Was just saying that it is "thou shalt not murder" not "thou shalt not kill" as many people say. My apologies for poor wordsmanship :-)

Okay, here we go... Graham: The phrase ‘unwanted children’ is certainly sad, but you cannot deny that it can be the case. However, I sincerely doubt that every person will elect to not have a child, so we don’t really need to worry about that. A] Some people have sex for pleasure, not just procreation. B] Aight, we’s coo’. C] Every instance you listed involves kill someone who has already been born. Those are vastly different from the clinical procedure of [CLINICAL PROCEDURE]. If it’s not regulated, it WILL become an underground practise, and women WILL die from receiving non-medical ‘treatment.’ Desperate times, and all. We owe more to those who are currently alive than to those that [insert legalities here]. D] Of course a human fetus doesn’t grow up into a horse. That’s where the genetic makeup and chromosomes you mentioned come into play. But on a superficial level, they are identical. Goodness, feti even have <i>gills</i> in the womb. Certainly not a very human trait [which in no way negates the genetic humanity of a fetus]. Also, double-homicide laws are not prevalent across the United States. As of yet, only <u>fifteen</u> states have laws protecting feti: Arizona, Indiana, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah, and Wisconsin. For Joanne [Im just trying to organise responses, not singling out]: Sure, there are people who either have, are, or will abuse abortion. That’s also true of alcohol and cigarettes [and we all know how well the Prohibition succeeded *wink*]. I’ve already covered the killing-on-the-streets view above, with Graham. “To never allow that child inside of you to have a heart beat is murder” – if only something with a heartbeat can be murdered, how can preventing the heartbeat entirely be murder, if it was never alive in terms of cardiac spasms to begin with? I really disagree with you in regards to rape, though. A child conceived through rape will forever be to its mother the symbol of an incredibly ghastly, traumatic, and damaging experience. Furthermore, how will the mother handle explaining where exactly the child’s father is? Will she tell the child that he or she was the product of a basic violation of human rights, an act of violence, a memory which is a source of continual pain for her? Or will the mother lie? The Judeo-Christian Bible also condemns speaking falsehoods, as a commandment and therefore equal to that against killing. Conundrum. Also… Um… With the exception of the lovely Amy Powers, I haven’t seen a pro-life argument that does NOT reference the Judeo-Christian Bible. Religion is entirely too relative and volatile for reference in an argument such as this. The only reason I employed it within the above paragraph was for demonstrative purposes. And pretty sure my laptop’s battery is running out, so if I omitted something [highly likely, as it’s after midnight and I’m fried]… Yeah. I’ll get back to you about it.

drew, did you know that you would end up getting heated responses to this question? it is a very touchy subject. i will chime in with my opinion... i believe abortion is wrong. like amy said, one should not play God. religiously, God knows this unborn child before it is even born and formed. and scientifically, amy is right in saying it does indeed have a heart beat. even if it does have one after 18 days, it is still very much alive. if you really want to know more about this subject, i suggest you not take these passionate views to form your opinion on this matter. i found a site that has information on both prolife and prochoice. you chould check it out: abortionfacts.com

My view on this subject is that it should never happen. I know that girls might get raped and wanna have an abortion but its tottally uncalled for. There are people out there that cant have babies who would love to be able to have an unwanted baby for there own. People just dont understand how killing a baby weather its at 2 weeks or 6 months is murder. It just disgust me to know that one would do something like this. Do they not understand the commandment do not murder ??? How can one go through life knowing that they killed a little baby who never got a say in weather he lived or not. I just dont think its right and it should def. never be legal.

I dont think abortions should ever happen. Its not right and like JFaulkner said I think people should put there kids up for adoption not abort them. How do we know if you kill them they may come up with some amazing invention or something to change this life but no YOU KILLED THEM so they never had a chance to do anything on this earth. Its a shame that one would even consider abortion because adoption is such a better way to go. I realize that some parents may be going through money problems and just cant afford to have the baby at the time. Im sure you could put them up in Foster Care andthen once you get your money problems worked out you could easily have the child back. But you should never kill a child no matter what under any circumstances.

I dislike abortion. I do not consider the fetus to be human or anything approaching it; it has no social attachments, no language, nothing. But it is alive, and as a result, I don't like the idea of killing it. Killing any living thing is to be avoided if you can manage it. But sometimes you can't. Sometimes, as another of us said, you aren't choosing between right and wrong, but between wrong and less wrong. Men have made the choices for centuries of whether or not to go to war and murder millions because "it's an ugly job, but sometimes ya gotta do it." Why can't we be given the respect to make a similar decision, each of us ourselves, as individuals?

I believe that abortion is wrong because it kills an innocent child. The things that lead to abortion are wrong too, things like extra- or premarital sex, the sex ed from the schools that encourage and promote sexual activity outside of marriage, the encouragement of sexual activity by the TV, music, general media, hospitals, etc. Sex needs to be limited to marriage alone. God in His Word, the Bible, gives us the absolutely finest, most excellent advice. Because when our society has not followed His instructions concerning sexuality, chaos occurs: Sexually transmitted diseases in pandemic proportions, one out of three babies killed by abortion, marriages unable to work, etc.

Does anyone find it ironic that people who are againist aboration are for the death penelty? I do believe abortion should be legal. a) The goverment should not be restrict a woman't body, it is our choice. b) if legal, the father would have a say in things. c) Abortion will not go away, it will just be done illegally and more women will be killed in the process. Those are my quick thoughts..

ok i wanted to mention that the site Rachael posted was very good ( it tells about pro-life and pro-choice, and has a story that i read about one girl (Gianna Jessen), now 19 and very happy she lived, her mother tried to abort her. the dr had her down for a later apt and she had her baby before the abortion apt...) the Dr said she fought for her life... and later in her story she also says... "Today, a baby is a baby when convenient. It is tissue or otherwise when the time is not right. A baby is a baby when miscarriage takes place at two, three, four months. A baby is called a tissue or clumps of cells when an abortion takes place at two, three, four months. Why is that? I see no difference. What are you seeing? Many close there eyes..." and i agree with this... ok then i saw Caras response about how it is a womans choice... i dont agree here..how can you believe its womens choice to CHOOSE life or death? to me thats "playing God" (as put above)how can you believe that it is our decision to murder that innocent child...ive tried to understand...but even if i was raped i WOULD still want that baby...a baby is a gift from god (which my name means haha) and i would not be able to live with myself knowing i chose to murder my baby (some say that the baby would remind you, but thats only if you want that excuse...take faith in the Lord ,he has given this child to you for a reason,and he will help both of you.) dont punish the innocent child for something that happened to you...we are harming the future when we abort innocent children...ive tried and i just dont see (i cant see ) how some people think this should be our "choice" but thats just me. im pro-life.what can i say.

Well. I actually wanted to comment on this post because I've actually done an argumentative paper on this subject. I am a christian and I don't believe abortion should be legal. We as humans should not try to "play God." God tells us that he formed us in our mother's womb and knew us even before we were born. Babies are not a mistake. They are a gift from God and should be thought of as a blessing. Life is so precious....especially innocent ones. Abortions rob the world of a person that could have changed it. And for the your comment on my post....yeah college has been good so far....just weird experiences. I hope you have a great weekend.

In reference to pregnant women, the term "with child" occurs twenty-six times in the Bible. The term "with fetus" never occurs once. In Luke chapter one, verses 36 and 41, we are told that Elisabeth conceived a "son" and that the "babe" leaped in her womb. God does not say that a "fetus" leaped in her womb! He says THE BABE leaped. This is the exact same word that God uses to describe Christ in the manger AFTER He is born (Luke 2:12, 16). In God eyes, an unborn babe and a newborn babe are the same. They are both living human beings! Dear reader, please answer a question: What is an "infant?" Get the answer in your mind and keep it there for a moment. Do you have it? Okay, please consider Job 3:16: "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." Did you see that? Job referred to unborn children as INFANTS. Not fetuses! Not masses of tissue! INFANTS! In God's eyes, an unborn child is a living human baby. God never says once that an unborn child is anything less than a human being. David said in Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." He did not say that a fetus was shapen in iniquity and conceived in iniquity. David, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said that HE was conceived. David, not a blob of tissue, was conceived. The same is the case in Psalm 139:13-16: "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." Who was in the womb? David! A literal and living person. The Bible never uses anything less than human terms to describe the unborn. Notice that in Jeremiah 1:5 we are told that God KNEW Jeremiah:"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." To further confirm the fact that God views the unborn child as a person, please consider Exodus 21:22-23: "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life," If the woman has a premature birth and the child lives ("no mischief follows"), then there's no death penalty. However, if the child dies (or the woman dies) God says the death penalty applies: "thou shalt give life for life." Why would God require the death penalty if He didn't consider the unborn child to be a human being? Friend, like it or not, God says that life begins at conception, and the unborn child is a human being. But the Bible isn't alone in declaring this truth. Science also declares that an unborn child is just as much an independent human being as you. The original human cell consists of 46 chromosomes, 23 from each parent. At no point during pregnancy does the mother contribute any new cells to the child. The original cell divides itself and multiplies to provide development and growth for the child. Scientifically speaking, the child is just as independent at six months before birth as he will be six months after birth. Yes, the mother does provide nourishment to the unborn child, but she also provides nourishment to the newborn child! At two weeks pregnancy, the "fetus" can move alone. By four weeks the child has limbs, muscle tissue, a heart and heartbeat. Ears, eyes, and small hands are visible by the fifth week. The child responds to touch sensations by the sixth or seventh week. At eight weeks, the baby sometimes tries to take a breath when removed from the mother. At twelve weeks, the child will often struggle for life two or three hours when removed from the mother. Friend, abortion is wrong because abortion is MURDER!

im going by a strictly religious standpoint. God says in the bible that I thought of you before the earth even began.Well with that thought out there that means you will have to awnser to a higher authority. it does not matter that even if a woman wants the baby or not she decided to make a foolish decision and she must accept the conciquences. Even if there are those wierd situation that are random (such as rape) i say kill the perpetrator not the result of it.

okay so when you decide to have sex its your choice, getting pregnant is a possiblity. i dont think it should be legal, unless the girl got raped, in that case it wasnt her fault.

Abortion and the death penalty are two sides that are like the most contested debates or something. I can't ever seem to decide what side I'm on for the death penalty, but as for abortion, I am highly against it, with exceptions. Like a bunch of people said up before, if you choose to have sex and a baby results, it's not the baby's fault that you decided to screw someone and systematically kill a baby that could have been someone. And what's up with the whole "unplanned" baby thing? How much of our life is planned anyway? True, we do have control over a lot of stuff in our life, but if the powers above give you a kid, accept him/her, for pete's sake. The exceptions I mentioned were for incest, rape or for the mother's health, especially if the mother has a family and needs to be alive for the sake of others. I knew a lady who had to have two of her embryos destroyed because of the risk it had for her. She had two other kids and the embryos, because of their location in her body, would have killed her, rather painfully. I support it if something like that comes up. Also, incest and rape are not something girls can be blamed for. If the father or brother was retarded and sex-depraved enough to go after his sister or daughter, he should be punished. Babies who are born to girls who had sex within the family are more likely to be retarded or have some kind of problems, either later in life or when they're born. Abortion after rapes seem cruel, but I think it'll be strictly the girl's choice as to whether she wants to keep the baby or not, depending on her financial circumstances and a supportive family or someone to take care of her. It does seem harsh to decide whether a baby can live or die based on finances, but it does cost a lot to raise kids and it is not going to be easy on the girl if she has to live with the result of someone else's stupidity [raping is stupid.] I mean, if I were raped and had the kid, it would be a very painful experience to both me and the kid to know the he/she was the result of a rape. Everyone who's reading this probably knows about sex. And one thing about sex is, SEX MAKES BABIES!!! If you don't want to have the baby or are not ready to accept your consequences, don't have sex. Or if you really want it, use contraceptives or protection or something. They're coming out with more and more stuff nowadays, which are supposed to be getting more and more effetive to prevent pregnancies. And to all those of you who are saving yourself for after marriage, power to you. It might not be the coolest thing in the world to stop your significant other from reaching under your skirt or unzipping your pants, but you can make some choices and if you make the right ones, hopefully you won't have to decide whether to keep a baby or kill him/her..and live with the decision for the rest of your life.

ok so.. i believe that every child should llive. God obviously created this child for a reason and kiling it is llike destroying his plans. yes some peoplle say its the womans decision but all the woman is thinking about is herself. she can get help for the baby.. adoptin is always the best if she dosent know what to do.. or cant get help. i think abortion is a very poor and sad choice on a woman to do. every human being is precious. i think its wrong to killl that. so i have so much more to say. but i think you get my point. : ]

If the Judeo-Christian god can foresee a child, he can obviously also forsee their abortion, and I believe we can place enough faith in said deity to not impart cures or divine knowledge to someone who will not be born. If the JCG goes ahead and does that anyway, then we're obviously not supposed to have that information on earth. If he wants us to have something, it will get down here one way or another.

I think it should be illegal because that's a life and if you get an abortion you're killing a living baby even if it isn't born yet God made it and it is still alive!!So no abortion should not be legal!! Megan

Does anybody find it ironic that many people who are pro-choice are anti-prostitution. It's the woman's body, after all. And as a matter of record, my first post didnt (that I can see) reference my beliefs in Christianity either.

And also, back to Kelly. I understand that many people have sex for fun and not for procreation. What I was saying is that they know that a baby can come out of it even if that isnt their intent. By engaging in recreational sex, they are claiming responsibility for any child that may come out of it, no matter their intent. And while I respect the point you are trying to make in your last comment, it still doesnt get past the fact that I life is being extinguished. As I asked before, where is the child's freedom of choice. And while I am not totally certain of my stance on the death penalty, I find it right on the border of moronic to compare the two. In one, someone is guilty of something. They had a life that they chose to throw away. An unborn child has no crime and no choice at all. The difference should be glaringly obvious to anyone.

<small> hey, do I know you?

Hey I promised I would give my remarks. Although it is difficult to say, because I've always tried to avoid arguments like this. I am definately pro-abstainance and pro-life. I definately believe that God told us to be fruitful and multiply, and by aborting a life because you do want it seems selfish to me. I know I may not have the right perspective since I have not had to face any decision like that, but I believe that if people take the risk of having sex without want of a child, then it is their responsibility for the outcome. I don't think that this will help you much. But I guess I simply believe that we have the resources today to care for orphaned children, so if worst comes to worse and the child cannot be taken care of by the parents, he or she can still have a life. Like the person before said. A lot of people would like to see other people aborted now, but wouldn't that be wrong? I hope this helps you with your project man.

Okay, with exception of the lovely Amy Powers and the equally lovely Graham Wells. ;) Apologies. I’m not exactly for prostitution, because it just strikes me as rather nasty, but if a man or woman practises it, that’s their choice. Again, we’re much better off regulating it than letting it spread uncontrolled like bacteria in a pitri dish. [Or some other disease, wink-nudge.] "What I was saying is that they know that a baby can come out of it even if that isnt their intent. By engaging in recreational sex, they are claiming responsibility for any child that may come out of it, no matter their intent." <--- Ooh, good point. About the death penalty, I can't remember whether I was trying to compare the two. This is what happens when you stay up too late, hehe. But yeah, half the world has bee making the comparison. However, an unborn child is not capable of making a choice. Most abortions occur during the first trimester, at the latest stage of which none of the organs are fully formed or functional. Something that hasn’t bee born doesn’t have a choice, largely due to the fact that they are not exactly a citizen and bereft of decision-making capabilities. This might sound weird, but I'm rather enjoying our debate.

I am enjoying it too, because, quite shockingly, it has remained civil. I have a terrible headache right now though, so I'll have to continue later. I dont think the death penalty thing was directed at you, Kel, I think Cara was the first to bring it up, but I could be mistaken.

This website has some interesting info: http://www.lpch.org/diseaseHealthInfo/healthLibrary/pregnant/first.html. And here's a quote from pregnancy.org about the first trimester: "The first trimester (0 - 14 weeks), is one of the most crucial for your baby. Within this trimester you will find the most rapid rate of growth and development taking place. By the end of the 1st trimester, your son or daughter will have grown to 3.4 inches (8.7 cm) long and weigh about 1.5 ounces (43 grams). Your infant will develop everything from limbs to vital organs."

Yeah, the amiability has really been [pleasantly] shocking. Yeah, after a while, who brought up what, and responded how to whom and why [depending on the moon phase... At the hour of total eclipse] can really get confusing. Who knows, at this point?? Lol.

I don't know about all these long smart people answers but there is one thing that I know aboution (if that is how you spell it) is like murder. If you get an aboution you should go to jail.

Has anyone that is against abortion ever been pregnant? I think that changes things. Also, for the person that said there are a lot of families that can't have children and would love to adopt- you are wrong. If that were true there would be no children in foster care- they would all be adopted. There also wouldn't be orphanages and there are. Most of the people on here that seem to be against abortion have idealistic views of the world and of a god that orchestrates everything. It's simply not the case. Even if there is a god, he doesn't just have everyone's best interest at heart, including that of the unborn child. It is impossible to have everyone's best interest in mind because eventually it conflicts and someone is going to get the bad end of the deal. Religion is always changing and should NOT be used to make legal decisions- it's not reliable or universal. And what is murder? Is is okay to kill innocent Iraqi children? Is is okay for abortion to be illegal and force babies to be born and thrown in trash cans (which is worse becuase the baby starves to death slowly). Is is better for a baby to die before it really knows anything or for it to grow up in poverty and abuse? I know many of the people against abortion think these babies will be taken care of by god if the mother doesn't abort them, but history and present tell us differently. There are neglected, UNWANTED, and abused children everywhere- what is god doing to stop that? And I bet there are children that pray for something better and god never shows. All this to say, you can't just make abortion illegal and think god will handle the rest. It's crazy because he's not handling what he has in front of him right now, from what I can see. If abortion is made illegal there will be many more children who are neglected or murdered after they are born. There will also be many more children being raised in unstable homes with parents who don't give a shit about the child or what they are forming them to be. It sucks either way. So why not have the option to end it before it really starts? I personally wouldn't want to have an abortion, but if it was better to not have the child come into the world, I would do it.

You should have the choice if you want your baby or not. I would never get an abortion because personally I think it is wrong. But I don't think we should tell someone else that they can't just because we wouldn't. i do think though that there should be a set time when an abortion can happen... fairly early in the pregnancy. There might already be one I havn't really looked into it. but there you go.... thats how I feel.

Dying slowly from hunger in a trash can or being torn apart piece by piece without any anesthesia a few weeks before your are due to arrive in this world. What's the difference. Even if it is rare, abortion is legal up until labor. that means that rather than having my baby a week early I could have chosen to kill her legally. Adoption is a long and very expensive process. I know many couples trhat cannot have children, but they also can't afford to adopt. I know one couple that waited 10 years before they finally made it through the adoption process. If we fine tuned the process of adoption, there wouldn't be so many "unwanted children" out there. Abortion is very emotionally painful. It is not something you do and walk away and never think about it again. We are so use to a life of convenience. Not everything is easy. But, just because it is not convenient and easy does not mean we can't deal with it. Sometimes raising kids gets tough, but I can't just send them to the zoo because things are tough. I just keep plugging away. And, yes. God does care for each of us individually. So much that the Bible says he knows how many hairs our on each of our heads. he loves you wherever you are and whatever you have done. He even uderstands you if you hate him. that doesn't change his love for you. he understands when life is tough. Yes, bad things happen, and often to babies and children. But, just because bad things happen doesn't mean we just do away with the value of life. That is when we try harder. We volunteer at the hospital or Pregnancy Support Center or we give a friend some money so they can get through those tough times. We babysit their baby for free, you get the point. Whatever it takes to help each other. Whatever the pain you have been handed in life. God is there for you.